
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Is there anything that you would change in the film?
Director Oriana Ng
Yes.
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Can you share that?
Director Oriana Ng
I always cringe between … So when he finishes his first dance and then the waltz, so they have these two scenes of dialogue and I don’t like the dialogue. I think we kind of get away with it because they’re such great actors that even if the dialogue isn’t necessarily the best; they sell it because they’re so amazing.
And then, we have the beautiful shots that Emilija did and the location. The production designer, Margot, did an amazing job as well. So I think we kind of get through that part, and it’s okay, and we need it for exposition to know that something happened to her husband.
But I just wish I had ridden it more elegantly. I’m also trying to be kind to myself. I’d only been in school for a little over a year, and I didn’t know how to write. I was writing from up here when you have to really write from here, and I think there’s just too much talking. It could have been much more elegant from a writer’s point of view.
Gregg Morris-the WORD
How did you get into film?
Producer Abigail Prade
Yeah. So, my background is actually in art history, and I did that for college, and all those …
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Okay … art history. What do you mean by art history? You were…
Producer Abigail Prade
Studying art history in college, but I always …
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Okay. So writing books and articles and reviews and stuff?
Producer Abigail Prade:
Yeah, more, not art itself, but painting, but it’s more studying art on an academic level. But I always wanted to make films. And my grandmother, this is like the days before IMDB, she always gave me this book like Leonard Maltin’s book, where you can see the …
He rates film by stars. Whenever we would watch a movie, we would look at what he wrote. Maybe something was a turkey and something else got five stars. My family really likes movies, but they didn’t really think filmmaking was good to do so. And then, I was like, ‘Well, I like art history, so I will study art history.’ And then, at one point, I was doing an internship at our national film museum in the Netherlands, and I thought, “This is really great, but I still want to make movies, and if I don’t do it now, I’m probably never going to do it again.
So then, I applied to go to NYU Film School, and I did the program in Singapore because I really love Asian art house films; I’m also influenced by my grandmother, she’s Chinese-Indonesian, and she was exploring her own roots, so she was watching a lot of Taiwanese films and ugly films. It was like, ‘Oh, that’s exciting to me.’ So then, I went to film school, but yeah, my family would still say, ‘Oh, Abby, she’s studying for unemployment.’ But …
Gregg Morris-the WORD
[inaudible 00:43:24]
Director Oriana Ng
Oh my God. Should I answer the same question?
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Oh, please, please, please.

Director Oriana Ng
I got into film because of Robert De Niro and Mart Scorsese, and this is not a joke, and that’s why I came to New York because I discovered their movies when I was 12.
My mother showed me The Godfather, and she skipped over the parts I shouldn’t watch, and I was somehow fascinated at 12 years old. And then, she was like, ‘Which actor do you like?’ I said, ‘I like this actor,’ and she was like, ‘Oh, well, that’s Robert De Niro. He’s very famous,’ but I was 12. I didn’t know better. So then, I watched almost all of his movies during my teenage years, and I got really interested in Scorsese.
And so, when I was 14, I Googled, Where did Scorsese go to school, and it said, NYU MFA Film, so I said, ‘Oh, that’s where I want to go.”
And then, it took me 11 years to get there, but I did eventually after going to business school because I was like, “I also did not want to study for my unemployment.” And then, I was like, “No, I don’t want to do this.”
My mother was really great because she didn’t know if it was a phase or not, and she was obviously worried, but she said, “Get a real degree first, and then if you still want to go to film school, I will help you pay for it.” And so, I got the real degree, and then the year I graduated, also, I got into NYU, and she supported me and also supported this movie.
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Wow. Wow. I think I’m out of questions. Wait a minute. I might not be out of questions. Is there something you would like to have talked about that didn’t come up in conversation or I didn’t ask the question or something like that? What would you like to tell critics of the world? No, I’m not making sense. Let me …
Producer Abigail Prade
Yeah. Maybe we come across a certain way, but I’ll speak for myself, but there’s times where I’m crying and I feel very bad about myself and totally insecure and unsure. I’m like, “Oh, the film industry. I get frustrated.” I don’t think that’s also good to always be super confident and super sure because I think all of us have those doubts about yourself, and am I doing the right thing? I don’t know. Did I approach it the right way? We’ve all had moments like that.
Director Oriana Ng
Oh, and I echo that. We’re talking to you, and this is great, and we feel like, “Oh, we’re filmmakers” because we’re talking to Gregg Morris-the WORD, but then as soon as we hang up, it’s like, “I’m going to try to apply for a job. I’m going to try to do this, and then my movie gets rejected from yet another festival.”
This is the glamorous part, but it’s a struggle. I mean, I think we really have to love it to accept the struggle, but I also wanted to touch on something you said about being powerful. To me, what I was kind of implying earlier when I say I’m the least talented person in the room is I cannot make a movie by myself. You can write by yourself, and you have this autonomy and carry a project through alone, which I really envy because I can’t even write a script by myself.
Like for this, I actually had the actress come in and rehearse around it, and then I would be like, “No, no, that sounds terrible.” Then, I would go and rewrite it. I had them do improv. So the part, his solo dance, came from an improv where I was just throwing things at him, and he started to sing and dance. I was like, “Oh, this is great. I’m going to put it in a movie.”
And the moment where she breaks down in the waltz scene, that happened on set. And the way I wrote the script wasn’t like that. I wrote the script, and originally, she was dancing with him, and she put the jacket on him. She found her husband again, and she was enjoying that. But then, she, on set, started to cry. And then, I was like, “Oh, this is so much better than what I wrote.” So then, I just adjusted, and I was like, “Can you just do two turns where you’re really remembering your husband and you’re happy?” Because she had started to cry immediately.

I said, ‘Just don’t cry immediately.’ I mean, she’s such an incredible actress. I never had to tell an actor not to cry because she was so emotional and she has such incredible depth, so it’s the first time in my life ever that I had to tell an actor to hold back. So I said, “Just hold back for two turns, and the third turn, you can let go.”
But that was something she did. Also, when she puts her hand on him at the end, that was something she did. That wasn’t planned, and this is what I’m trying to tell you. When I’m saying I’m the least talented person in the room, it’s because all these people are so talented and everything that I write, my imagination will never live up to what Ophelie and Mikael, the actors, can do, or the way Emilija planned that shot, it was an accident.
We had another plan for the shot. We’re supposed to use a steady cam. The steady camera had the flu. It was like with fever, couldn’t do anything, and we had a tripod. I was kind of freaking out, but not showing it because I’m on a film set. I’m supposed to be the captain of the ship, right? But internally, I’m trying to push the shoot. It was the last day of filming was the last few hours.
I’m like, “Can we do it tomorrow? Can we?” And then, the AD mode, who was just really amazing, kind of came up to me. She’s like, “No, we have to do it.” Emilija looks at the room, and she stays for maybe a minute looking, and I’m not saying anything. Emilija’s like, “I think we can do it with a tripod, with a pan.” I was like, “What?” And then, she showed me the shot, and I didn’t get it.
And then, suddenly, I was like, “Oh, this is better than everything we had.” So this is what I’m saying. It’s like I don’t feel powerful because these people are better than me. If I’m good at anything, it’s just seeing those moments where they’re inspired and inspiring them. And then, when they’re on an instinct, I’m like, “Oh, go for it. Go for it. Give me more of that. Yeah, yeah, let’s keep that.” So if I have any, that’s my talent, but it’s completely dependent on all of their talents.
Producer Abigail Prade
Yeah. I will add to that. I think, Oriana and I talked about this, I felt quite bad during NYU Film School because I felt that I was like, “I know how to write papers, and now, I have to write and do something creative.” And now, I’m like, “I don’t know if it’s good. I think it might be bad.”
And with a paper, I know when it’s finished, and with something more creative, I don’t know when it’s finished because you can keep working on it forever trying to improve it. And so, I was really having a hard time in film school, and I think as you go through it, you also learn things that work for you. So for example, NYU, I would say it’s like… Well, I think maybe now they changed a little bit compared to when I was there, but the instinct …
Producer Abigail Prade
… is really more a traditional three-act structure, and I knew I don’t really want to make films like that, or I know I need to have some kind of structure, but I really like films that are mature and more languid and more atmospheric and moody and not necessarily have a huge plot. So I was really struggling with that.
But as you go through the program and as you grow older also, you just find things that work for you. So you just have to find the way that works for you, and it doesn’t matter if someone says like, ‘Oh, this is good or this is the only way to do it,’ because you have to find what works for you.

Gregg Morris-the WORD
Okay. So there we go. I got a second recording. So we’re good. We’re good. Wow. Yes. I mean, it’s probably one of the heaviest, deepest interviews I’ve done in a while. I mean, it’s fired up all my cells and stuff. So I’m lucky that you guys can send it to … I feel very fortunate that you allow me to interview you and pick your brain and listen to your concerns and your fears.
I said powerful, but it’s… I see it as a power that’s athletes because basketball was so big. I mean, I’ve got to spend some time trying to flesh out. There’s got to be another way for me dealing with this power thing. I think it’s sort of like has something to do with strength, but I haven’t figured it out yet. I will tell you, probably 15 minutes after, I’m not saying go, but I was probably saying a few minutes after we break off, I’ll go, ‘Ah, that’s what I meant. I was using the wrong word.’ Yeah, anyway, sorry.
Director Oriana Ng
But I think it’s funny because when you said that, we both picked up on it …
Producer Abigail Prade
Yes, we were like …
Director Oriana Ng
… and I guess we’re not powerful, but I think it depends. The image, because when I made this movie, it was shot six years ago. We shot it in January 2020, and it took me four and a half years to finish it, which is something I hope to never do again.
But the thing is, I was really still in film school and learning, and the beauty about the NYU Grad Film program is kind of, they trust you, they give you these great means, and they’re like, ‘Go and make your film,’ but you’re learning as you go. I think the image that I have of myself when I’m directing now would be something like a table where the meal happens or a tray. I’m holding the tray or maybe if we’re in a room, on the walls of the room, but then what happens in the room is what Emilija, Mikael, everybody else is doing that.
I really think maybe when I was younger, and even when I made Waltz for Three, I didn’t fully own that, but now, I’m just trying to be like, I’m trying to create this space. I’m trying to create the context where magic happens, but I also don’t have to control everything. I don’t have to be the one, “Can you do this like that?
Can you move your head this way?” I’m creating the environment, and I’m trusting that the people I’ve chosen are talented enough that they will make it happen. I love being surprised on the film set. Something that I will take credit for on this film is that I really wanted to shoot chronologically. And for the most part, we shot chronologically. So there’s only one little part where we didn’t, but that scene, the waltz scene, which now, everybody’s like, “I think it’s the best scene in the movie.” And as I told you, a lot of it came up to other people’s contributions, and it wasn’t how I had envisioned it.
But the one thing that I think I did properly was I didn’t shoot it the first day. We shot it the last day. I think all the actors had been through this emotional journey and the crew, we had all been through it together, and I don’t think we would have had this moment of connection if we’d shot it on the first or the second day.
That’s a little bit, I guess, following theater methods, which I hadn’t done theater before, but I was always fascinated because you kind of rehearse and you rehearse and you discover, and there’s an order in which you rehearse. What I don’t like about filmmaking sometimes, it becomes very choppy. It’s like, “Okay, well, let’s shoot this first because efficiency and time is money and all that.” and I get that to some extent. But what Abby was saying about finding your process, to me, you cannot shoot that scene at any random time.
Producer Abigail Prade
Yeah. I think also, for me, it’s something that you learn because I think when people start out direct… I think actually, and there’s different kinds of filmmakers, but what I enjoy, and I think what Oriana also enjoys is embracing some of the uncertainty in some of the just being open to what might happen because other people will contribute, you’re choosing your team, and also really trusting the people that you choose because you chose them for a reason.
But I think when you start out, you’re a little bit more like, “Oh, it needs to be a certain way.” Again, there’s different types of directors, but what I found to be my trajectory as well is just learning to let go a little bit more so that …
Also, you can enjoy the process, and you can enjoy all the things that people bring to it because filmmaking is collaborative, and I don’t like it when… Well, I guess that’s my personal opinion, but I don’t like if a director is too much like, “It needs to be exactly this way because that’s the way I have it in my mind.” They bring their own things to the material, whether it’s cast or crew.
Director Oriana Ng
I was asked one time, “Are you a control freak because you’re the director?” And I said, “No, I don’t direct animation. If I was directing animation, maybe I would be a control freak, but between action and cut, I’m completely powerless.” If the actor decides to do something else and doesn’t want to say my line or the camera decides not to do the movement or whatever, I can’t action and cut. Everybody has free rein except me. I’m like, “I’m just sitting back and watching,” and I think you have to embrace that in a way.
Gregg Morris-the WORD
Wow. I can’t think of anything else.
Producer Abigail Prade
There’s a documentary that I watched yesterday at Dances With Film that maybe you’re interested in because it explores some of the themes that you mentioned in your own work that you were interested in. It’s called Glendora.
Gregg Morris-the WORD
What is that? Glendora?
Producer Abigail Prade
Glendora. It’s a documentary about this community in the Mississippi Delta that was important. It was close to where Emmett Till was killed, and the community has been really overlooked just by the government. And even though they’re dealing, they’re struggling, the documentary showed how they are also, the communities uplifting each other. So I thought it was interesting.
Gregg Morris-the WORD:
Is that spelled L-E-N-D-O-R-A-D-O-R?
Director Oriana Ng
Yeah.
Producer Abigail Prade:
I think when you’re a filmmaker, you have an obsessive nature. So I see plays multiple times, and I’ve seen my favorite movies. I must have seen like 500 times. If there’s a screening, I’ll go to the theater, and if there’s a play, I’m going to watch it again and again if I really like it. “Oh, today, the actor did this different at that moment.” I remember all those things for no reason, but I like that you’re also kind of fascinated and try to see things over and over again when you love them because I have that, too.
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